Is This As Good As It Gets For Ferrari?

Nick (: 00:01

What is good everyone? Welcome to the Exhaust Notes Formula 1 podcast. Your new favorite Formula 1 podcast. My name's Nick Engvall. I'm with my guys Todd and Rohit to talk about some racing and some drama and some silly season. It's just a permanent silly season this year. So what's good guys? How you doing?

american pie (: 00:14

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Carlos Sines and Ferrari for winning the 2024 Formula 1 Constructor and Driver Championship. Because we all know if Max wins and Red Bull wins, it doesn't count anymore. So, congratulations gentlemen. It was a one race season.

And we're very impressed that you, Carlos, did it without an appendix. But we're not going to condone the fact that you're telling other drivers to take out their appendix. Anyway, I'll defer to somebody who I think has an appendix. Todd, how are you?

Todd Yates (: 00:54

I do in fact have my appendix and yeah for weight savings come on you don't need an appendix but I have to start this episode by with a public apology to one mr. curry in a hurry Rohit Mahotra because all this time if you would have asked me for the last two years which Ferrari driver I'd rather have in my car I would have taken

american pie (: 00:57

would figure it out.

Todd Yates (: 01:25

Chuck, Chuck LeClair, Charles LeClair. Look, Lord Percival. And I feel like if you look back at the last 20 races and the only people that have won are a Red Bull driver or Carlos Sainz, it just proves Carlos Sainz is a better driver.

american pie (: 01:26

Lord Percival? Lord Percival?

american pie (: 01:48

You know what, I thank you for that. I'm ready to zag now and say Charles is the, no I'm not, come on. We all know what's going on. We all know he's been better. And this is something I was talking to somebody else about because we are, for a lot of us that are new to the sport, part of the Drive to Survive generation. And we'll talk about the other show favorite, Danny Rick, in due time with regards to this episode. But the secret sauce of Drive to Survive was not the fact that Danny Rick was the protagonist for season one.

Todd Yates (: 01:50

So I humbly apologize.

Todd Yates (: 01:55

Hahaha!

american pie (: 02:17

was the fact that he was a co -protagonist for the entire series. And that other protagonist is Carlos Sines. And it seems that everything Danny Rigg tried to do, Carlos Sines did and did it with a great deal of success. He was able to switch teams, he was able to usher in a new era, he was able to put his head down and just get the results. And now we are possibly talking about the hottest commodity coming into the 2025 season.

Todd Yates (: 02:43

He is now. I can't think of another driver.

american pie (: 02:48

The closest thing I can think of is Checo and Checo had the 20 to first run that I think is probably going to stand the test of time. It's probably one of the most dramatic things we've seen that's going to kind of get buried in the Lewis and Max of it all. But what Carlos has done is startling to say the least.

Nick (: 03:09

Yeah, I don't know if I don't know if checko is is up there. And I mean, you know, he's he's obviously a great driver, but I feel like.

Todd Yates (: 03:09

Nick, your thoughts?

american pie (: 03:18

You're only as good as your last drive to survive spotlight episode, it seems.

Nick (: 03:21

Yeah. Yeah. I mean.

Todd Yates (: 03:26

I mean, think he's proven that.

Every dog has his day. But I mean, Lance Throw in the Wet is a good driver, right? We've made that joke a million times.

american pie (: 03:40

as a famous friend of mine once said, but is he?

Todd Yates (: 03:45

Um

american pie (: 03:48

How were the last couple of Lance Stroll wet races? Remind me.

Todd Yates (: 03:53

Oh god, I can't even think of any off the top of my head. What was the last race in the wet?

american pie (: 04:00

that didn't involve the words Anita Driver and Danny Rick's sick neck.

Todd Yates (: 04:04

Thick Rick Racing for Love. Oh man, I can't. Anyway, I can't satisfy your tangent, but if they're the only person that would be more wanted in another car, obviously is Max Verstappen, which there's still rumors floating around. If Newy leaves and Max is out and he would love to go to Mercedes or.

Nick (: 04:05

Ha ha ha.

american pie (: 04:15

Thank you.

Todd Yates (: 04:31

Ferrari or God could you imagine they ditch both the Ferrari drivers and put Max and Lewis in the same team in Ferrari? Be amazing

american pie (: 04:39

Then Charles Leclerc would truly be the saddest boy of all time. Like we've hinted at this, we've made books about it, but he would, like what else does he have to do? Because I think now I've almost underrated him in regards to attacking him in the sense that I think he's an inferior driver compared to smooth operator, but he's not chopped liver, sad to say. And I thought it was very telling that during the race broadcast, I think it was Crofty who brought up that hypothetical of

Nick (: 04:40

That would be nuts.

american pie (: 05:06

If you're Fred Vassar, are you going to tell Carlos Sainz, hey Carlos, come to second so Charlie can get ahead of you and then not only win the race, but then lead the actual driver standing? And they're like, no, bro, we're not trying to mess this up, even though we are Ferrari.

Todd Yates (: 05:23

Yeah, I couldn't imagine. I don't know what the Tifosi would do if they would celebrate or boo in that instance taking unnecessary risks as driver swapping.

american pie (: 05:36

But enough of -

Nick (: 05:36

I don't know if we have an answer for this, but watching Carlos this weekend kind of made me wonder, what's the best a driver has done in a car that he is essentially no longer going to be in?

american pie (: 05:58

I'll stand by the 20th to first, no?

Todd Yates (: 05:58

Uhhh...

Todd Yates (: 06:03

Nah, that was one race. I would actually give it to Vettel. Actually, no, this -

Nick (: 06:07

Vettel and Red Bull last year's or you talk.

Todd Yates (: 06:11

Yeah, he was... I was actually talking about Vettel and Ferrari, but that second year of Ferrari was pretty atrocious.

Nick (: 06:15

Oh.

Todd Yates (: 06:20

That's a good question.

Nick (: 06:25

Cause I mean the other side of the equation right now being Lewis and in the Mercedes and you know, card car dies and then.

Todd Yates (: 06:37

Oh, Nico Rosberg, there's your answer. Won the World Drivers Championship and then just said, I'm out. Peace, bitches.

Nick (: 06:46

Well, but he, but he, he won and then said he's out. Right. I'm thinking like people that we know have already signed a new contract.

american pie (: 06:47

them.

Todd Yates (: 06:54

that he knew, yeah.

Nick (: 06:58

I respect the like, Hey, I'm going out on top approach to it. You know,

Todd Yates (: 07:02

Oh, Danny Rick's second year of Alpine was actually really good. And I want to just shoehorn that in there because we're not going to say anything else positive about Danny Rick on this episode, so.

american pie (: 07:07

Right now.

Nick (: 07:16

because his second year with RB is not doing well.

Todd Yates (: 07:20

Now second, well I guess it's the third race but... oof, duh.

american pie (: 07:27

Has he even made it one full calendar year? Like when did he join the team last year? Like how many races in the season?

Eight. Okay. And for a full season you need how many races?

Todd Yates (: 07:38

Twenty... well, what was last year, twenty -three?

american pie (: 07:41

23 and they cancelled one and so I guess 22 is the barometer because didn't they cancel one of the Italian GPS?

So let's say 22 is the full season. He had eight last year. He's got he's

Todd Yates (: 07:50

Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 07:56

Well, he didn't actually have... He might not have had that many, because remember, he missed like five races for breaking his hand.

american pie (: 08:02

Oh, that's true. Yeah. You're telling me Lance Stroll did something that Danny Rick couldn't?

Nick (: 08:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 08:14

I have to laugh otherwise I would cry.

Nick (: 08:20

Alright, so what else do we have to say about this weekend's race?

Todd Yates (: 08:25

Well, let's start with the start, right? Max launched off the line and was it lap two or lap three, retired? Lap three? Very uncharacteristic, you know, Red Bull mechanical malfunction. Well, I guess it is uncharacteristic now. But yeah, I guess his brake, right rear brake got stuck on and that's what...

When he went to break into turn six or something that's he had that little wobble and that's what let Carlos get past him. And then smoke started and then.

american pie (: 09:10

The pit lane entry was hilarious with no context.

Todd Yates (: 09:14

Oh, just explosion at the side. I feel like that's gonna be a gift meme to death in the next couple years.

american pie (: 09:16

Just explain.

american pie (: 09:23

Now, I mean, between that and the Gunther Steiner interviews, which I also kind of want to try to get three minutes for at the end of the race, let's just say this, Gunther Steiner is a man of many talents and many things. Post -race interviewing might not be one of them.

Nick (: 09:36

Ha ha ha ha!

Todd Yates (: 09:36

That was... That was as awkward as the whole Danny Rick ESPN couch commando. Yeah, yeah, that was rough. Gunther, he did his best. But like, it's sad to me, going back to the Red Bull thing, it's sad to me that we get VADX because the level of dominance is so high.

american pie (: 09:46

with Marshawn Lynch and Will Arnett.

Todd Yates (: 10:03

that we get that excited. We're like, oh, Max D 'Neft, that means someone else has to win. Like, I felt that.

Nick (: 10:07

Yeah. Yeah.

american pie (: 10:09

There was no greater joy I felt with regards to a Formula 1 sense of things in the last 18 months than reading the tweet saying, Max and Lewis are both out. And then the mental math that I had to do was very similar to like a Homer Simpson cartoon where I'm like, Max and Lewis are both out? Why are they racing right now? I thought they would race on Sunday. Oh my God, the race is up!

american pie (: 10:37

Very cool. I host a nationally recognized Formula 1 podcast and even I don't know when the races are on.

Nick (: 10:37

Yeah.

Nick (: 10:44

I mean, Australia always sneaks up on me just because.

american pie (: 10:49

how random it is.

Nick (: 10:50

Yeah, it's like the only one that's way off the mark for us, right? It's either you're up at the Krakadon or you're up three hours before the Krakadon or it's in America.

Todd Yates (: 11:03

Yeah, well actually this the start to this season has been weird because we had Ramadan and those first two races were on Saturday. So it ended up being the day before for us at like midnight something.

Nick (: 11:08

Yeah.

Nick (: 11:14

Yeah, yep.

Todd Yates (: 11:17

But that's the wrong kind of attitude to have as a Formula 1 fan. It's like, hey, the best guy in the best car is out. That means somebody else could. I bet even our max stands in the Discord were excited that somebody else was going to win.

american pie (: 11:25

Thank you.

american pie (: 11:33

No, because they can then use it as a footnote, being like, you other nerds remember when you got excited for one race because our guy couldn't even show up?

Todd Yates (: 11:45

Yeah, but OK, maybe it wasn't that exciting of a race other than that, with the exception of the very end of the race, which we'll talk about. But like the fact that McLaren was close enough to put pressure on Ferrari and there was like some pit strategy going on, there was like a lot of battling for, you know, 10th, 11th, 12th. That was really interesting. It wasn't overshadowed by Max fucking off out front.

Nick (: 11:45

I mean, yeah. Go ahead.

Todd Yates (: 12:13

by 30 seconds for the first time in a long time, right?

Nick (: 12:17

Well, yeah, that would have been his 10th, 10th straight win in a row. Right. So.

american pie (: 12:20

and that ties the record.

Nick (: 12:23

record that he said already like two years ago yeah it's basically been max what 20 out of the last 25 races no more than that

Todd Yates (: 12:23

Yeah, he set his own new record. Yeah.

american pie (: 12:32

So basically he's going for the Dwight Goodman, nobody makes me bleed my own blood, Carlos. I'm coming after you.

Nick (: 12:37

Yeah. Yeah. I would not be surprised if he wins by like, you know, six days.

Todd Yates (: 12:44

A minute.

american pie (: 12:47

I know, let me ask you this, over under half a race of non -Max Verstappen winners for the rest of the season.

Todd Yates (: 12:58

What's the over under? 0 .5 you said? I'll take the over.

american pie (: 13:00

Yeah.

Nick (: 13:02

Yeah, I'll take the over. I think, I think it's just a good reminder that even the teams that seem unbeatable are bound to mess up at some point, right? Like it, it really does take the whole team to, for those guys to win. And it kind of, yeah, it, I mean, look, it's, it's hard to say it sucks having somebody like max who's so dominant because that's how formula one has been.

american pie (: 13:11

Have afters.

Nick (: 13:30

And like you obviously want to see somebody like Max. You know, you want to see somebody break records, you know, you want that's sports in general, right? Like what love it or hate it. Like that's what makes it great is like, who's that next person that's going to take the throne and carry it to the next level. But I think that's the hardest part about watching, you know, well, I take that back.

The hardest part about this weekend for me was the fact that I put Max on my fantasy team for the first time in like three years last week or last race and then he goes and fucks off like what the hell man? I...

Todd Yates (: 14:07

I did the same thing.

Todd Yates (: 14:13

I was trying to do the whole like, oh let's do balance with two good teams thing. And so I like sacrificing Max and it's obviously not working because I'm not in first or even near first in either league I'm in. And then I was like, you know what? I just got to be like everybody else. Max Verstappen put the double points thing on him. Fucking DNFs.

Nick (: 14:18

Yeah.

Nick (: 14:31

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

american pie (: 14:34

That's why I'm not playing this year.

Todd Yates (: 14:37

Ugh.

Nick (: 14:38

But I do think that like this race is, I think it'll be really good for Carlos, right? Like obviously a win is great for anybody, but I think Carlos has had so many just shit moments at Ferrari. And then he's also lost so many times to Max directly. I think this is hopefully, you know,

little bit of a spark to say like, oh, I can't do this, you know, because he, he was like, I don't know if he wins the race, if max, you know, doesn't, you know, DNF, but it feels like these types of things can be turning points for the other teams to be like, oh, there is a possibility there and happening this early in the season to, you know, like points wise, they're not that far off right now. Like even though we're

Three races in it felt like max had already won this season, you know, like it's crazy.

Todd Yates (: 15:39

Well, to be fair, like before the season even started, it felt like Max won the season, right? Preseason, he's like, you know, 60 % power, still clearing everybody by five, five or six tenths. But the juxtaposition of that, which I found so funny is like Max DNFs, he's super pissed off screaming on the radio after, you know, post race or his post race interviews. He's like, you know, his.

Nick (: 15:43

Yeah. Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 16:08

Kind of typical aloof kind of annoyed Max Verstappen. Meanwhile, we have Sauber kick, stake, whatever the hell, doing 50 second pit stops. And they're just like, okay, everybody could be careful. Be careful. Let's not, let's not over tighten the wheel nuts. And they still do it and cost themselves a point. It's just the level of expectation at those two teams is wild.

american pie (: 16:36

The spare nut anecdote killed me. They're literally holding spare nuts just to make sure that they don't use them or whatever the hell that story was and I was like, you guys are every bit extreme as that green on your car suggests you are.

Todd Yates (: 16:50

really is that meme from Harold and Kumar. Extreme! Like that's...

Nick (: 16:53

Yep. Yep.

Todd Yates (: 16:57

Oh Jesus, poor poor Valtteri.

Nick (: 16:58

Yeah, it uh, it I don't know. I don't know if there's any truth to it because I didn't see it on the day of the race, but there was something I saw on threads or Twitter or someplace that was like Max Max calling one of them calling the mechanics stupid or something in his rant and Christian Horner had to make comments about it or address it or something I don't know if there's any truth to that or not. Like it just was like

Todd Yates (: 17:19

Oh really?

Nick (: 17:27

Felt like, yeah, that could probably happen, or that probably did happen, not could happen. That just seems like Max venting. But the other thing I was thinking about as I was kind of just mentally preparing to record, this race kind of put a...

Todd Yates (: 17:32

Yeah, probably.

Nick (: 17:51

Don't know if it's uh, I don't I don't want to give too much credit, but we talked a lot of shit about Haas without Gunther and This race both house drivers scored points. So How much credit do they deserve? Or is it just got lucky?

Todd Yates (: 18:12

No, no, I obviously everybody has good races and bad races, right? Even with Gunther at the helm, they had some good races, whatever. But if they if we see like a pattern of where they're just off the points and like edging towards the points all year, then yeah, like it was, you know, we have to say as lovable as Gunther is, he was he was the commander of that shit show.

Nick (: 18:40

How do we get Gunther on the podcast?

american pie (: 18:43

If he's on Cameo, I think we can figure this out. Like, what's Cameo? Like, that's some poor kid's algebra problem. Like, if Gunther Steiner charges you 800 bucks for five minutes, how much would he charge you for 60?

Nick (: 18:45

hahahaha

Todd Yates (: 18:58

Oh man. You know Zach Brown is on Cameo and he's like, I think it was like $140 for a shout out. Let's just multiply that out.

Nick (: 18:58

Oh man, that would be amazing.

american pie (: 18:59

No, I was just...

american pie (: 19:05

Oh, I think that's going up. Because that's the other thing I wanted to ask you two gentlemen about was, the prince that was promised, Lando Norris, he almost had it, or so we thought.

Nick (: 19:09

Ha ha ha.

Todd Yates (: 19:19

What do you mean? Like, I don't think they ever really had the pace to keep up with Ferrari, but the fact that they kept close and within the striking distance for undercuts and stuff was really impressive. But which I hate that this is the case again. This just proves that the McLaren car is very track specific because this has a lot of or Australia has a lot of like high speed corners and that's the best feature of that car. So like.

they're gaining time the most in high speed corners. If it's a straight or slow speeds, slow speed corner, they're losing time to everybody else. I think they were.

Like in the DRS zones in Jeddah, I want to say, they were like, even with the DRS open, they were only six kilometers an hour faster than the person in front of them. When like the Red Bull was like 17 or 18 something, a wild difference. So.

Yeah, the good news is that what's next? Japan, I think. So they should be really good there also. I don't know about a Red Bull beating, but really good there. So.

american pie (: 20:38

Double points, Nick. Double points Lando. Double points Oscar.

Nick (: 20:42

I mean, yeah.

Todd Yates (: 20:44

Now triple, you can triple point somebody.

Nick (: 20:49

It was pretty crazy to see how much of a difference, like Lando finished 30 seconds ahead of Piastri. And at one point, Piastri was ahead of Lando, right? And they swapped them.

Todd Yates (: 21:01

Was it really 30 seconds?

Nick (: 21:03

Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 21:05

I thought he was like...

Nick (: 21:08

So it's Carlos's 120, 26, LeClaire was 2 .3, Lando 5 .9, Piazzery 35 .7.

Todd Yates (: 21:18

Oh wow.

Nick (: 21:19

And then check it was 56 seconds off. I mean, I thought they were much closer to like when I looked at the numbers, it was like surprising because I don't remember when that happened, when, when the, the swap happened, but it seemed like fairly early, right? Like,

Todd Yates (: 21:41

Well, because they pitted LeClaire first on Ferrari. And I guess their pit strategy was whatever LeClaire does, you do. So if he boxes, you box. So they pitted Oscar first. And then they, because of that, Lando stayed out. And Oscar overtook him by doing the undercut, essentially.

Nick (: 21:53

Yeah.

Nick (: 22:05

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I -I -

I wouldn't, I don't expect McLaren to be...

Any higher than they are. I mean, hopefully wishful thinking me is like, I still want to see Lando get a win, but I just don't see them unless there's like serious upgrades down the line. I, they just don't seem to be impressive, I guess pace wise.

american pie (: 22:37

I think the other thing that was interesting as well watching that race, we've officially come to the portion of Lando Norris' career where they're now slowly talking about him of, dare I say, is this going to happen as opposed to when it's going to happen? Because a couple different instances they were talking about the fact that, man, you feel it for him, it's really going to be here soon. But then, to your point, Nick, and to your point, Todd, Red Bull just had an off day and...

Even if Red Bull has an off day, it seems like the Ferrari is head and shoulders above everybody else. And you have to add these qualifiers of, well, it's got to be a high speed corner track for McLaren to really catch in on their potential. So it may be a Japan or a bus as far as we're concerned. Suzuka.

Todd Yates (: 23:21

I was just checking to see if there was any big upgrades from McLaren coming for Japan. Sounds like they're gonna have minor updates, but they're looking for a major upgrade package in either Imola or Miami. So...

Take that for what you will. I don't think unless we have another max DNF and Time penalty for our grid place penalty for check. Oh, I don't think we're gonna

american pie (: 23:55

But the tech of things also interesting, right? Because the way we were just talking about Oscar Piastri and we all I think all came to a collective that we didn't realize he was 35 seconds off of Lando's pace. The broadcast was very quick to point out that where is Sergio Perez? Because once again, here we think that this Red Bull car is untouchable, but no, it's quite touchable if the wrong driver or any driver not named Max Verstappen is in it. So he came in at a fifth.

And even then that was as pedestrian of a fifth as I can ever hear a specific company having, let alone one with the heightened expectations the way Red Bull does.

Nick (: 24:33

Yeah, I mean, I hundred percent agree.

Nick (: 24:39

There were no issues with, with Chacko's car though, right? Like nothing. Cause he was quite a ways off of what we would have expected from.

Todd Yates (: 24:49

I think even in the post -race interview, either LeClaire or Sainz said, like, I expected Checo to just come through the field and be battling with Checo for the win or for the podium. I can't remember which one of them said it, but Checo's never been known for...

Nick (: 25:03

Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 25:11

Like his RaceCraft, I guess. He's never, like, other than the 20th to 1st event.

american pie (: 25:19

He's a tire whisperer, and I mean that not in a derogatory term, but that was always his first superpower. Like, A1 superpower if Checo Perez is a video game character is his ability to manipulate and extend a tire's life.

Todd Yates (: 25:32

But he can't do that while going through traffic. Like, there was a lot of graining issues, I guess, in Australia. And he just never has been known to battle through traffic very, very well. Not like Lewis or Max or some of the other hallowed names that we always talk about.

Nick (: 25:57

I do have to say...

Australia's has moved higher up on my list of tracks I want to go to after watching even though the race is not necessarily The most exciting but the just like the setting when it's nice and not raining. It just looks incredible

Todd Yates (: 26:19

Yeah, I would put it in my like top three probably.

american pie (: 26:24

The only thing missing for me was the tasteful Bluey cameo because I'm all in on Bluey, I'm all in Australia.

Todd Yates (: 26:32

I can cosign the Bluey fandom over here in this household. The only thing I've heard that's really bad about that track is that it's like an island. So to get actually get to the track is quite a pain. You either have to take a ferry or bus in and out and it's hours to get in and out.

Todd Yates (: 26:59

Also, there's probably spiders. Everything in Australia in my mind is covered in spiders, so I probably won't ever go to Australia, but...

Nick (: 27:10

That's good to know.

Todd Yates (: 27:13

Everything's covered in this.

Nick (: 27:16

All right. It sounds like it.

Todd Yates (: 27:16

Can you tell that I'm scared of spiders?

Yeah, yeah. There's something huge that happened that we haven't talked about yet.

american pie (: 27:27

Talk about it.

Todd Yates (: 27:29

Albano.

crash this car in free practice.

american pie (: 27:37

Sergeant.

Todd Yates (: 27:39

No, Alvin crashed his car in practice and Williams didn't have a spare chassis on hand because they're operating on a Google Sheets budget when you need Excel. I'm kidding. That's just a dig at them for how they develop. They literally like develop their car in Excel. There's a whole thing that came out about it. It's pretty funny.

american pie (: 27:41

Oh, okay.

american pie (: 28:01

I thought you were calling out Microsoft's draconian practices of charging us like a hundred dollars to extend your Microsoft Office license.

Todd Yates (: 28:09

No, but that's I wonder if Williams is current on their bill for Excel because that's apparently how they use it to build their car. They so Albon crashed in free practice. They didn't have a spare chassis. And their answer to that is yoink from Logie Logie Bear. And they just said the best chance of us getting a point in Australia is Albon, so you're not racing.

Which is crazy in itself that like granted they're a bottom of the barrel team operating budget wise or development or infrastructure or whatever you want to call it, but it's still the pinnacle of motorsport and they're still meeting the $145 million budget every year or budget cap. So how do you not have a spare chassis? But the second point I want to make is the reaction to that whole thing going down online.

was pretty interesting, because I think everybody thinks Logan sucks, even Logan, kind of. And the backlash to, oh my god, that's brutal. Come on. Let's be honest here. There's no sugar coating necessary. The medicine is the medicine. You just got to swallow it. Al Banzo's a s**t.

Superior driver in every way shape or form Yeah, so if they're gonna try to get a point it's gonna be him

Nick (: 29:44

He's only superior if he doesn't finish an 11th like he did though. Since he didn't get a point, there's no proof that he's superior.

Todd Yates (: 29:52

Yeah, but is it better to finish 11th or 17th?

Nick (: 29:56

I mean, there's no points in either of those positions, right?

Todd Yates (: 29:59

True, but it proved that they almost got there with Alba. Their best chance. It didn't say guaranteed points.

american pie (: 30:09

Alex Albon's been their best driver in the last 10 years and I'll fight anybody that says otherwise.

Nick (: 30:14

I agree. I think he's a great driver. Actually, I think him in a him in like a Red Bull or a Ferrari would be really fun at this point, but.

american pie (: 30:19

Is it more?

american pie (: 30:23

I keep holding out hope that it's signs and him for Audi in 2026.

Todd Yates (: 30:28

That'd be sweet.

Nick (: 30:29

Yeah, that would be awesome.

american pie (: 30:32

No, because it's one of those things where he's done so many remarkable things in a car that we would be very, very nice to call it remarkable, or even average at best. But he seems to get a tune out of it. I had no issue with it. I think the only person in my life who had an issue with it was somebody who has a man crush, so to speak, on Logan Sargent, to which I ridicule you, Ben Coleman. What are you doing with your life? This is... We can blurp that name out later. It's cool. I can say its full name.

Benjamin Josephine Coleman, I'm pretty sure, BJ. Anyway, I digress. But it's one of those things where, whoa, are we in the participation trophy business? Because yeah, otherwise, give Sargeant his ability to drive the car. But Albond has historically proven I am how Williams goes. And there's nothing any of us can say about it otherwise until Logie Sarge gets a, do we want to say a consistent top 12 performance?

Todd Yates (: 31:29

Just put them on pace wherever that because we know the Williams again very track specific car. Well that not as much this year. They kind of sacrificed it being really fast in a straight line to try to make it more well rounded. But like it's going to do well on certain tracks right. So if the pace of the Williams is 17th and you see Albon finish there. The sergeant better be an 18th right. And it's not ever that it's Albon and 12th.

13th, sometimes 11th, every once in a while in the points. And Logan in 16, 17, 18, maybe dead last.

american pie (: 32:08

Thank you for putting respect on Alpine's name.

Todd Yates (: 32:13

Well, they actually had a decent race.

But...

Nick (: 32:18

Yeah, I mean, I mean, honestly, like an 11th place, an 11th place finish for Williams is impressive at this point, right? Like, no, no denying that. I don't think, I don't think anybody's arguing on that even, you know, although you, yeah, people are offended that I, it's just crazy that they didn't have a chassis. I mean,

maybe, maybe they were just like, Hey, we could save X amount of money by not taking an extra chassis to Australia. Like, do they just, do they completely leave like a container to behind and save that much? I mean, I don't know how much that costs, but.

Todd Yates (: 33:01

sure it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars right the chassis itself and then like the transportation costs probably

Nick (: 33:04

Yeah. Yeah.

american pie (: 33:10

What happens if they have another big crash?

Todd Yates (: 33:13

They don't race, but that's the crazy thing about this. The development time for a chassis, they said, is like six to eight weeks or something. So they're going to try to have another one for not Japan, what's after Japan.

Nick (: 33:33

Shanghai.

Todd Yates (: 33:34

Shanghai. They're gonna try to have one for Shanghai, which means if they crash in...

american pie (: 33:42

Suzuka.

Todd Yates (: 33:43

Suzuka, yeah, thank you. Somebody's not racing again. How funny would it be if Albon crashes in Japan and they're like, sorry, bro, we need your car again.

american pie (: 33:55

If I can add... No, I was just gonna ask a dumb question. So am I wrong to think that at Suzuka there's only gonna be one William's car?

Nick (: 33:56

So, so there's, go ahead.

Todd Yates (: 34:05

No, they have one. They have a spare chassis. They just didn't bring it or whatever. Like, yes.

american pie (: 34:08

They have a spare chassis, as in one spare - okay, fair enough. Nick, I'm so sorry, please, go f -

Nick (: 34:14

No, that's what I was going to ask. I was trying to clarify it because it just seemed, I mean, I don't know how many chassis the teams usually have, but I feel like they're probably in the four to five range, not the two to three range.

american pie (: 34:27

I also feel like chassis is one of those words where the singular is the same as the plural. Do we need to go chassis?

Nick (: 34:31

chat. I was wondering about this too.

Todd Yates (: 34:36

I think it is, actually.

american pie (: 34:39

Like radii.

Todd Yates (: 34:40

like Bison.

Todd Yates (: 34:45

Yeah. Well, yeah, that that was mind boggling to me that everybody was all been out of shape about taking Logan Sargent's car because like, you know, bless his heart. He was a decent. I think he won.

Did he win F2? Maybe after, no, he was like in the battle for a win, I think, in F2. He won on his way up in the junior categories, but like, he's basically Latifi. As painful as that is to say as an American.

american pie (: 35:20

Well, let me ask you this, would you rather be the American Latifi or the Canadian Sergeant?

Todd Yates (: 35:29

Well, I haven't seen Logan Sargent's girlfriend, so I'm gonna go with Latifi.

american pie (: 35:31

Wrong, wrong. The answer is always American. You always want to be American.

Nick (: 35:32

Ha ha ha.

Nick (: 35:38

know.

Latifis after racing choices are rather impressive. So yeah, business school.

Todd Yates (: 35:46

He went to like med school or something, right? Business school, okay. Less impressive, but still, school.

american pie (: 35:53

I've been to business school.

american pie (: 35:57

And I'd probably drive that car as well as he does.

Todd Yates (: 36:01

He's like, again, he was like decent on his way up, but there's, it's not the first time this has happened. People, even Latifi was good. Uh, Oh God, what was his name?

for...

Mahindra.

american pie (: 36:20

The Indian dude. Just... Deruvala?

Todd Yates (: 36:22

Yeah, was it? No. This is like 2012 or something. Doesn't really matter. But this isn't the first time that somebody's been promising on the way up and just gotten a Formula 1 and not cut it. Like, DeVries. DeVries was a Formula E champion, and he just petered out immediately.

american pie (: 36:26

I'll look it up. You keep talking.

Nick (: 36:38

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick (: 36:44

I mean, it does make you wonder like, I mean, that jump is always going to be difficult, right? People don't realize like how difficult.

I mean, I can't even compare, but like the fastest street cars I've ever been in, I'm not capable of driving myself, right? Imagine having 50 times the power and handling of anything on the street. Like the levels, the levels to this are so insane, but it does, it kind of, I'm backtracking a little bit here, but that kind of made me think like,

the the shift in the in the Lando narrative to will he win, right? I feel like Leclerc is kind of in that same boat, right? Where like both of them had higher expectations and now they're kind of like we've kind of like backed off on our expectations. Leclerc obviously has won races but like he was supposed to win championships too, right? So, I wonder if Formula 1 is is

one of those sports where maybe it's the opposite of the thing I always talk about with like basketball or baseball where, where players stick with a team and that becomes much bigger legacy than whatever they would do elsewhere. You know, like plenty of guys will hop to a winning team to grab a ring as they're leaving, you know, the sport, which understandably, but at the same time, like if you're really dedicated to the team,

There's probably just as much, not a ring, but there's probably just as much value in you being around for the longterm as a coach, as a staff, whatever. Um, makes me wonder like where Leclerc and Lando land in that conversation. Now, are they pass their, their opportunity, you know, like does Lewis moving to Ferrari actually make Leclerc better driver or.

Nick (: 38:51

Does he just step over and dominate and then we care less about LeClaire after 2025.

american pie (: 38:57

I think McClare is dangerously flirting with the fact that he might be the most... Is there... Do we want to call him a bust? Because he's one enough. So I don't think he's a bust. But I think he may be the most under... It's not under -celebrated. What am I trying to say? Under -utilized or under -hyped or over -hyped. Maybe he was slightly over -hyped. As I stumble to try to figure out what exactly I'm trying to say.

because aspirations and potential were high, but he's yet to capitalize on any of it. And I do think that the one thing, especially with Lando and Charles, if you compare them, they're both mirror identities of one another because I don't see them leaving their teams anytime soon. And the one observation I've also made about Formula 1 as a whole is I think athletes in this sport are more quick to leave their current team and go on the greener pastures than any other sport I could think of.

Todd Yates (: 39:59

Yeah, they do jump ship quite frequently, quite quickly. But I gotta pump the brakes on both Chuck and Lando. I know there may be a narrative of that out there in the F1 Twitter scum world, but I'd say that if the Ferrari is capable...

Leclerc right now is the only person that can match Max's pace on like one lap pace, especially. He's not known for like being able to be as adaptable as Carlos. So like we're talking good conditions, good track surface, tires are working right. He's the only one that can get pace like Max out of a car right now. And Lando, I think is still on an upward trajectory. He just hasn't had the car yet.

He's only had one chance of a win, right? And then his lack of experience was like, no, I'm not pitting track position, yada, yada. That ended up screwing him. But he's really only had, I guess, those two races back to back where he had a chance at a win. The car hasn't been there since.

So just take it easy on my boy. Now that Danny Rick's in the garbage, I have to fanboy somebody and it's gonna be Lando, okay?

american pie (: 41:26

Do you want to talk about it now or do you want to filibuster?

Todd Yates (: 41:29

Yeah, we can segue into them.

Nick (: 41:31

I mean, last point on the Lando and Leclerc thing. I think Max has given us unrealistic expectations, right? Lando's 24 years old, Leclerc's 26. These guys are in their prime, if not still getting there. So yeah, Max is just the only guy to win 6 ,000 championships before his 12th birthday. Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 41:57

He's an android.

Todd Yates (: 42:02

But yeah, let's talk about it. Let's awkward silence into Danny Rick's talks.

Nick (: 42:04

Ha ha ha ha!

american pie (: 42:08

Good tea!

Todd Yates (: 42:13

I don't know if it's just I'm drinking the Kool -Aid of the negativity on F1 Twitter or whatever, but it apparently hasn't been confirmed by any source necessarily that I follow or trust so far, but there has been rumblings that...

Well, we already know that Marco, Dr. Evil has come out and said like both Sonoda and Ricardo need to step it up because they're not, they're both underachieving. And then after the Australian Grand Prix, Yuki actually had a good race. Really, really did well. Ricardo did not. He was what, like...

Todd Yates (: 43:06

Well, I want to say, I don't even know where he finished, but his, I was actually tagged you guys in it today. I found a pretty staggering.

Nick (: 43:07

12th, 13th.

Todd Yates (: 43:23

uh... Stat line.

Todd Yates (: 43:32

Where is it?

american pie (: 43:37

I'll find it. Hold on, I've got it up.

Todd Yates (: 43:43

There was a pretty staggering stat line on comparing Nick DeVries to Daniel Ricciardo. There we go.

american pie (: 43:47

I've got it. I've got it. What we're looking at is essentially De Vries' first three qualifiers in 2023 versus Danny Rick's first three qualifiers in 2024. I'm not going to read the whole tweet, but essentially they're comparing how much faster Yuki Sonoda is to the both of them. So Sonoda in the first three qualifying in 2023 was 0 .421 seconds faster than De Vries and those tracks were Bahrain, Jeddah and Australia.

Now for this year, Sonota is .446 faster than Danny Rick and the tracks once again are Bahrain, Jed, Australia. So we've got as equal of a comparison as we have between these two scenarios and it just seems that, dare I say it, Danny Rick is slower than Nick DeVries who didn't even see a whole season.

Todd Yates (: 44:37

He's on average four tenths off of Sonoda. And so is DeVries, which is like mind blowing. It was eye opening to me. I also like your Midwesternness kicking in there, bro, on saying Bahrain. That was great. Bah.

american pie (: 44:54

Bob Rain. Bob Rain.

Nick (: 44:56

Ha ha ha ha ha.

american pie (: 44:58

And out of the three of us, I look the most barren -y out of all of us. So that's the idea of all of us.

Todd Yates (: 45:02

You said it.

Nick (: 45:06

I think that's interesting because

Well, first the whole, you know.

Helmet Marco thing saying that they need to step it up. Right. It's like.

I feel like that's...

comparably that's like, you know, somebody.

Nick (: 45:33

at, you know, the VW group, like somebody that races, Audi's telling the guys that drive the Passat to get with it and step up their racing, right? Like the RB cars are not Red Bull cars. However, if in some reincarnated life I come back,

My one hope for Formula 1 in future when there's two teams of the same ownership group would be that the winning drivers have to swap to the shitty cars and prove that they're actually good enough to drive any car at pace. Otherwise, how can you talk shit about Sonota and, I mean, Dan and Ricardo is one thing, cause like, he's just seems to be off all the way. But like, we all know those cars are not as good as the Red Bull cars.

american pie (: 46:36

even close to it. I mean that's the thing for all of Dr. Helmholtz what feels like monthly wake -up call to people I thought Yugi was having a fine season and I think he just needs to say things sometimes just to say them out loud but yeah what is he gonna do because this is the question I asked both of you during the pre -show meeting like who else is he gonna go after like nameless faceless soulless young driver?

Nick (: 47:03

You're on mute.

Todd Yates (: 47:04

I'm on mute. Wouldn't be an Exascinates episode without somebody talking on mute. But yeah, we talked about it in the pre -show. There is a... the Red Bull...

Talent pool is forever gigantic. Ro is currently, just for those listening, is filling a sippy cup with lean. Sorry. That will throw me off a little bit. The Red Bull talent pool is huge. We have the obvious choice of Liam Lawson, the reserve driver right now. There is Ayahuasca.

I think I, yeah, Mumu, I butchered his name in the pre -show also. But they have they have everybody and then they have things like the best car on the grid that isn't going to be changing anytime soon. So they have if they wanted. Carlos Sainz, Fernando Alonso. Potentially Lando, if he gets sick of being loyal.

american pie (: 47:48

Moo Moo.

Todd Yates (: 48:16

to the papaya, they kind of have their pick of the litter right now. So they can kind of say whatever they want to their drivers. And it seems like Danny Ricks in a tailspin again, like he had with McLaren, because his responses to why he's off so far off the pace is a bit of a head scratch, like Nick just did.

He doesn't understand why he's off the pace. He after the second race, he said something's off in the car and apparently the team tore it all down, checked over everything, rebuilt the car or whatever. And he had kind of the same response after Australia. So this very much sounds, feels whatever, like when he had given up at McLaren. I don't want to sound the alarm bells yet.

I want to see Danny Rick on the grid. But according to the Twitter rumblings, he's got two races to. To shit and get off the pot, so to speak, and if not, they're going to bring in Liam Lawson.

american pie (: 49:26

We joked about this earlier, but after seeing that master class on how not to do post -race interviews, just slot him into that spot. Like we've gotten what we need out of Danny Rick. Like what was the realistic expectation for this V -Carb, RB, we have the meats stint of his career. Like this, dare I say, this is worse than Michael Jordan in Washington. Like this is not the sunset that we want from Danny Rick. Like.

I think, and it's obviously easy to say in hindsight, his last great moment was in McLaren when he won at Monza. Like that's it. That's what should have just kind of left it at that. But nope, we are going down the depths in the Ring of Fire a little bit deeper, just like Johnny Cash would want us to say.

Nick (: 50:15

Yeah, I mean, I agree. Like he's definitely off. I still think it's just, I don't understand the point in like belittling or, you know, kind of attacking your drivers on your second team. Like you mentioned all those drivers that are kind of like pick of the litter drivers, but like none of those guys want to go race for a secondary team for Red Bull. Like.

Todd Yates (: 50:39

No, well, he said it in the context, basically, like with the way they're performing, they're never going to make it to the first team, right? Danny Rick wasn't shy about especially coming in this year. Like his goal is to get back to racing for Red Bull. I think they've said the same thing about Yuki. Like this is the junior team. This is the stepping stone to get to race for Red Bull. And Dr. Evil is just like, well,

You're not even cutting it racing for the second team.

american pie (: 51:10

But in years past, like, look at Albond, look at Gasly. They didn't necessar - like the Red Bull drivers - hold on. The Toro Rosso drivers didn't necessarily move up because they were doing better in their car. It was always a capitulation by the secondary Red Bull driver. And we're kind of seeing that with Perez now. And so as far as I'm concerned, I don't think there will ever be a scenario, no matter how good somebody is in that secondary car.

if both drivers are holding up their end of the bargain on the Red Bull Senior car, there's no way anybody's gonna touch either one of those seats. So it's kind of a doomed prophecy. I just think this is somebody who has been a co -architect of a dynasty just being bored because it's yet another season and they've already showed an unrelenting level of domination that they need to fabricate stories like this because it really is going to feel very anticlimactic yet again when they win both constructor and the driver's titles this year.

Nick (: 52:09

Yeah, cause I mean, what else do you expect from the second team anyway? Right? Like you don't expect that team to be anywhere. You know, like they're, they're at the bottom of the points. If that at all, you know, in every race, like you might see one or two good races where they land six or fifth or something like that. But the expectation for that team can't be like, no driver is going to get into that car. And then all of a sudden they're going to.

give him checko's seat, you know, like granted there may be changes, you know, for future seasons or whatever, but checko like, I just don't think you need to like, I don't think the expectation is both drivers are winning. I think the expectation is max wins. Everybody else is a backup and Hey, you backup guys, we might cut you because you're not, I don't know what like,

Not getting enough camera time. Like, like you're measuring the wrong thing. If you're giving them a car that's, you know, going to land at 10th or 12th on the, you know, on the grid might as well measure it by camera time or, or, you know, length of interview post -race or pre -race. So you can actually get your advertising dollars back.

american pie (: 53:30

I have a question for both of you. Considering Australia's race results, is this the closest we've seen a second car or second seat from Red Bull and the first seat from the RB, Toro Rosso, whatever the hell we're calling it this week? Like that gap seemed to be at its smallest with Checo getting fifth and Yuki getting ninth. Or are there in your mind in recent memories a gap even smaller between those two specific spots or cars?

Nick (: 53:58

That's probably the closest it's been.

Todd Yates (: 54:00

Wasn't there a race where Yuki beat Checo last year?

american pie (: 54:06

Even if there was, that kind of makes my point because Yuki in that regard has probably done the unthinkable. He made his card go faster than the Red Bull. They are not rewarding him with that seat anytime soon. Not only that, we'll use the precedence of what happened with Albon. When Albon got replaced, they didn't drive into the junior program, they got Checo, who was arguably at that time the Carlos Sines of that era in terms of the most coveted free agent.

on the grid. So I'm more likely to see a Carlos Sines take that secondary spot than I would be Danny Rick, Liam Lawson, Yuki Sonoda, any of your junior drivers or any of your RB Meats drivers. Like it's never going to happen. So good job, Helmet. You got us to talk about this for five, 10 minutes, but that's at the extent of this entire conversation's existence.

Nick (: 54:58

I mean, Yuki finished eighth, right? Cheko finished fifth. But like Cheko's been like second the first two races by a long shot. So.

Todd Yates (: 55:09

But we're talking about Helmut Marko here. He's two or three races not finishing second away from getting the Perez needs to perform speech from Dr. Evil. I think their expectation is this car is so good, we have no excuse not to be one to every race.

Nick (: 55:24

Yeah.

Nick (: 55:33

I'm just gonna throw it out there. Could there be racist undertones on these statements?

Todd Yates (: 55:39

Well, I think Ro just said like Yuki is never gonna get the seat. I think we know why. Like they'll appease Honda somewhat, but they're not gonna. They're not gonna put Yuki in the seat.

I agree though that Science is probably the most likely candidate to end up in that seat if for some reason Checo has another underperforming year. The one thing I was going to say is, I think that's where you're going to go with this, Ro. I don't think Science would want to other than say like, okay, I had my time away. I upped my game. Now I'm going to go stick it to Max.

american pie (: 56:07

I hope not, but...

american pie (: 56:27

I can kind of see it, but I kind of can't, right? So let's look at Stein's trajectory, because he left Toro Ross, so wasn't he driving alongside Max at that moment in time?

Todd Yates (: 56:37

I believe so, yeah.

american pie (: 56:38

So, saw the writing on the wall. He went to Renault and partnered with the Hulkenberg at the time. And I believe, ironically, Sines left to go to McLaren, which I think was a step up. So I think Sines did the right thing and left a mid -table team to go to a team with more upward trajectory. I think he acquitted himself really nicely in McLaren. Like, he never once, and he could have easily been like, you know what, I don't want Lando anywhere.

Todd Yates (: 56:44

Mm -hmm.

american pie (: 57:07

near me, I'm the defined number one driver. He took it in stride, he did what we consider his superpower to be, which is, I'm just gonna put my head down and drive, and more often than not, good things happen when that happens. Then he parlayed that into Ferrari, which I think a lot of us were initially kind of skeptical of, like, why is he going to Ferrari? Because he doesn't seem to have that panache or that charisma that we tend to associate with Ferrari drivers, but lo and behold, he's more than done a shift, he's more than held his own against the prodigal son of Ferrari. And now, for all intents and purposes, unless something dramatic happens,

He's going to be looking for yet another team and what are his options if we're being realistic? Maybe Mercedes, maybe Aston Martin. If he goes to either one of those teams, with all due respect to George Russell and I think in this probably hypothetical scenario, Lance Stroll, he's going to be the number one driver on those teams. That's what he's earned his right to be because he's always been a number one driver that's been in hiding because at Renault, I think Nico was still considered the number one driver.

at McLaren, he was kind of looked at as a transitionary number one because essentially he was just trying to get the bedworm for Lando to kind of take over. And the same thing, Ferrari seemed to hire him to be a good hand to compliment Charles Leclerc's umpteen world championships that they thought he was going to win. But none of that has happened. And he's always just held himself to a higher standard and more often than not. And I think this is an anomaly. And I think this goes a long way in shaping his legacy. He always comes out the better.

whenever he makes a team jump. And I think that's becoming a harder and harder thing to say about Formula 1 drivers, especially considering the fact that we just talked about the fact that these drivers tend to have the itchiest of trigger fingers when it comes to trying to leave to better their scenario.

Todd Yates (: 58:49

Well said. I have nothing to add to that. That was perfect. Well, all things considered, we may see Liam Lawson in the meets car in the next couple races.

Nick (: 58:49

Yeah, I think it's a good point. Yeah.

american pie (: 59:08

If they win, can we have Ving Rhames say Yuki Senota in his husky baritone voice that only he can? Because that would truly make it the most media victories for me. If RB ever did something cool like that.

Nick (: 59:19

Yes.

Todd Yates (: 59:19

Hehehehe

if only they were that cool.

Nick (: 59:22

That'd be amazing. So I don't know if this is the last thing we need to talk about, but I feel like.

I'm kind of wondering, what are the odds? Do we see Liam Lawson first, or do we see Gunther asked back to the post -race interviews?

american pie (: 59:47

I wish Gunther was post -race interview this podcast. I'd like, guys, how did this podcast go for you? And then repeat the question three times to somebody that was less than five feet away from him, like that.

Todd Yates (: 59:56

Then he picks up his phone, and, hey Gene, no, we look like fucking wankers.

american pie (: 01:00:01

Did he just fuck smash my interview? Well, we just got the explicit rating for this episode. Sorry, everybody that listens to their kids. Yep.

Todd Yates (: 01:00:03

Ha ha ha.

Todd Yates (: 01:00:09

Yeah, I dropped a couple. I mean, it's Liam Lawson, right? Gunther, bless his heart. The funniest thing about that, like I was, I started the race late and went to bed watching the race on my phone and then woke up as the race was ending. So I didn't even see the Alonzo George thing happen. I didn't even know about that until the next morning. But I woke up and I heard Gunther interviewing.

Nick (: 01:00:10

Yeah, I already did too.

american pie (: 01:00:14

capacity.

Todd Yates (: 01:00:37

drivers on the podium and I was like what the hell is going on I didn't know anything about Guntherstetter being there I thought I was hallucinating or dreaming at you know 12 30 at night or something

Bless his heart.

Nick (: 01:00:52

I thought that might have been why Haas actually scored both cars in the points, because they were like, oh, Gunther's here, we have to shoot. They were like, they probably, you know, did somebody check the weight on the car, check those wing measurements?

Todd Yates (: 01:01:02

Boss is here.

american pie (: 01:01:12

I'm just gonna say this, right? There's a very... I wouldn't say well -known concept, but the Ewing Theory, where whenever a team loses their best player, their best coach, the team that's expected to suck overperforms and they get a result. And I think Formula 1 might finally have their Ewing Theory candidate with Haas this year. But then at the end of the day also, if we are going to make this Gunter Steiner post -match interviewer thing, the only way you can salvage it is by...

bringing Mateo Bonato and putting him right next to Gunther so that way they can do their little Teehee Boys Club callouts with one another. Either that or if you're looking to replace Crofty and Brundle, I give you Steiner and Bonato as your driver 2A possibilities. Like, go ahead.

Nick (: 01:01:56

I mean, I already said I'd happily subscribe to a paid subscription to a Bonato and Steiner podcast or YouTube or something.

Todd Yates (: 01:02:09

just where they drive around the Fiat in the Italian countryside.

american pie (: 01:02:09

Only Ferrari?

american pie (: 01:02:13

Only fiat?

Nick (: 01:02:14

Ha ha ha!

Todd Yates (: 01:02:15

Yeah, it has to be a fear. It has to be a...

american pie (: 01:02:17

No, I meant, is that what you call it? Like OnlyFans? Like OnlyFia?

Todd Yates (: 01:02:20

Did not get that right over that

Todd Yates (: 01:02:28

Mean it's funny how charming he came across on that episode of drive to survive when they're when he was with Bonato Driving around and how awkward he was For the the post -race interviews, and I really feel like it's because they're like hey Don't drop an f -bomb every third word. They like put put the reins on him instead of just letting it happen like It's a private broadcast like I guess sky sports whatever

has the broadcast rights or whatever, but like just get the bleep button ready for him and let him do his thing. Like that would be the best post -trace interview of all time.

Nick (: 01:03:06

Yep, I agree. Yep, I agree.

All right, so let's talk about this, this George Russell thing you mentioned.

Todd Yates (: 01:03:16

Oh, yeah. So like I said, I didn't even see it until the next day, but I think it was on the second and last lap or going into the second and last lap. Turn three, three and four. Alonso said that he was trying to get a better line on the exit because George Russell was coming after him. And it just breaks like 100 meters earlier.

american pie (: 01:03:27

Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 01:03:46

than he normally would, so much so that he had to come off the brakes, accelerate, and then brake again. And that screwed up George's, or surprised, I guess, Russell going into that corner. And he came in way too hot, flew off the track, hit a wall, and then slid awkwardly sideways. And because he had already broken off two wheels, like flipped up on his side. So there's two things here that were

crazy to me. Alonzo ended up getting a post race drive through penalty which converts to like 20 seconds so he lost what was it P4 and went down to P8, 9 something like that. 7 okay yeah he lost a couple couple places.

Nick (: 01:04:29

Seven. I think, yeah, I think he was.

Todd Yates (: 01:04:36

Um, but it's definitely, he was definitely in the wrong for what he did, I guess, driving erratically like that. But at the same time, like if you start penalizing people for like racing, he was trying to get a better, a better line or whatever into the next corner or be able to carry more speed into it. So he would, it would be harder for Russell to overtake him on that long.

Now it's a straight curve thing they have in Australia. If you start penalizing drivers for like trying to race and like thinking about like, hey, I'm going to try to get a better exit here with a driver behind, that's kind of a crazy thing to think about. If they're like, oh, you didn't follow the racing line here, that's a five second penalty. You know what I mean? I'm not explaining this well, but they're setting a scary precedent here.

american pie (: 01:05:32

of breath.

american pie (: 01:05:36

I think if it's any other driver, there would be a little bit more backlash because it's Fernando and he's at this cute like senior stage of his life. I was like, oh, it's just Fernando being Fernando, which Adam Kroll always said, that's how you know somebody's an asshole. Whenever you try to justify it, you just say, oh, that's just so -and -so being themselves. So that's the only time I'm gonna quote Adam Kroll on this podcast. But at the same time,

Nick (: 01:05:55

Because Adam Kroll is just being Adam Kroll wherever he's at right now.

american pie (: 01:05:58

Look at that, that's why Nick Engvall is being Nick Engvall. Have we completed the loop on this? Is this full inception? No, I mean, to me, this is, I don't want to say it's a non -story because that was a hell of a crash, especially the way the other drivers talked about it, right? Like, you always hear the term big one, that felt like a big one to a lot of the guys on the grid, so I'm trying to respect their caution and their, I guess, compassion for a fellow driver. But the thing that makes this more interesting, and I hate driving,

driving it to this point, but we are where we are and we also kind of know what Formula 1 has become, which is simply season after silly season. This only gets spicier for me as a meatball when inevitably Fernando joins George Russell at Mercedes next year. Other than that, I just think it's one of those things where, oh, Fernando's being Fernando. And I also think because George Russell is the victim.

Maybe people don't take it as seriously because he is the epitome of the whiny posh British boy who is hall -monitor du jour as Todd Yates once called him.

Todd Yates (: 01:06:59

Well, that's the other thing we didn't talk about yet. And my second point to this, when he flipped over on the track, it was in such a dangerous spot that they're going through turn three and four at like 120, probably up to 140 by the spot where he flipped over. And he's on the radio screaming like red flag, red flag. I'm sideways on the track. Like his head's like hanging near the pavement and they didn't.

They barely threw a yellow flag for that. That was insane, right? Yeah, they ended up getting a virtual safety car for the last lap or whatever, but I don't know if everybody that runs that race is traumatized from last year and all the crashes and restarts and crashes and restarts, but that was nuts. Can you imagine?

Nick (: 01:07:34

virtual safety car. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 01:07:53

a car sideways flipped over on the straight in Imola, and they're just like, yellow flag. Like, yeah, we're good. Just drive around it.

american pie (: 01:08:00

Bon journo!

Nick (: 01:08:02

Yeah. I mean, I think it, I think part of that had to have been that everybody was like, Oh, race is basically over. Right. Like I think.

Think that it was the second to last lap So Yeah, not justifying it in any way. It's still guys are still trying to race, you know But yeah, the visual of it looked insane of him sitting on the track as I don't know who came through First but whoever came through first came through pretty hot and it was like, oh yeah that

Todd Yates (: 01:08:16

Yes.

Todd Yates (: 01:08:38

I think it was the Alpine, because I saw a picture of the tail of the Alpine right next to the car.

Nick (: 01:08:41

Yeah, maybe so. Yeah. I do think Rowitt has a point, though. I think that George Russell doesn't get the respect when he's... Because he's constantly complaining about stuff, it seems like. And I don't know if that's true or if that's just the way that his image is for me. But I 100 % agree with you, Todd. It's not like...

The way it seemed after the fact was some sort of like, oh, Fernando is break checking me or something, right? But like that was not, that didn't seem like that's what was happening at all, in my opinion. And if that is the case, then yeah, of course, like, you know.

To some extent, it could be dangerous, but it shouldn't have been as dangerous as it turned out to be. And I just don't think that, I don't know, like I don't even really agree with the penalty. You know, it's like, let them run.

american pie (: 01:09:47

I also think Fernando would be very honest and say, if you want me to break check you, you would have known it would have been a break check. So that's the other reason why.

Nick (: 01:09:53

Exactly.

Todd Yates (: 01:09:57

Yeah, it just sets a dangerous precedent for like, how can you really tell? I know they have all the telemetry and they did for Fernando and they did talk about it, that like, there was like a distinct like, hard brake, let off, accelerate hard brake to make the corner. So like, I guess, yeah, it's erratic driving and that's in the supporting code and stuff like that. But that's opening Pandora's box on like,

Like, think about when Max actually did break check Lewis. Was that the sale?

last year or two years ago when they were doing the whole DRS shenanigans. And he was trying to let him pass and Lewis was like, no, I'm waiting until after the DRS zone or DRS marker for that. And then he'd break checked him and there was all that. But like, that's just, I don't know, it's opening Pandora's box for potential freak penalty actions in the future. But yeah, George is a hall monitor.

Nick (: 01:10:40

Yeah, two years ago.

Nick (: 01:10:46

Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 01:11:05

He's the president of the Grand Prix Drivers Association and I guarantee he's gonna have something to say about it next race. If there was ever a time to throw a red flag, that was like the perfect one.

Nick (: 01:11:17

Yeah, to be fair, I'm not much of a hall monitor, but if I end up in the middle of a track upside down watching Formula 1 cars drive past my face, then I probably will be bringing it up next week too.

Todd Yates (: 01:11:27

I'm gonna be screaming red flag, red flag. Yeah.

american pie (: 01:11:31

Let's just end it there. Red flag, red flag.

Nick (: 01:11:33

Yes, all right guys well Awesome to catch up again awesome to talk racing. We got two weeks until Suzuka we got two weeks after that to Shanghai so any Parting thoughts on those two races?

american pie (: 01:11:55

If Williams destroys yet another chassis, can we bring said battle out of retirement? Because it is Suzuka, and he has always said that he will always do a shift there. So...

Todd Yates (: 01:12:08

But in what car if he destroys, if they destroy another chassis?

american pie (: 01:12:11

still figure something out. Because it's Sev, I think they'll start a Kickstarter.

Todd Yates (: 01:12:13

Just put...put him in the safety car.

Yeah, I will believe Shanghai happens when it actually happens. Something just have a feeling it's going to get canceled for God knows what else. Political environment, COVID something, something's going to go wrong and Shanghai won't happen somehow.

Nick (: 01:12:35

All right. Well, um, I mean, I guess that's possible, but hopefully it was a pretty cool track. I thought. Yeah.

Todd Yates (: 01:12:45

No, it's a great track. I love that race, but like I just because of their history in the last three or four years of like canceling and getting close and then canceling and.

Nick (: 01:12:50

Yeah.

Nick (: 01:12:54

We're closer than we have been in the last few years though. Right. So yeah. All right. Well, uh, let's let everybody know how they can find you outside of the show.

Todd Yates (: 01:12:57

That's true, that's true. We're only a few weeks away.

american pie (: 01:13:07

You can find me on Instagram at Rowadam13, same on threads on XimatRohizzi, and then you can find me on OnlyFans at GunterGangbang13.

Todd Yates (: 01:13:20

Peace.

Nick (: 01:13:24

I'm gonna let Todd follow that one up.

Todd Yates (: 01:13:25

Oh, fuck my life. I'm on Instagram at dadchew .jpeg. Threads, same thing. Twitter, dadchew underscore jpeg. Find us in the Discord and please give me ideas for funny OnlyFans names because I can't ever follow Ro.

Nick (: 01:13:48

I don't need any OnlyFans names, but you can follow me at Nick Engvall on all the platforms. More importantly, follow ExhaustNotesFM everywhere out there and leave us a review if you haven't. We would very much appreciate that. And thanks for listening. We'll catch you on the next one. Peace.